Pakistan's defence minister , Khawaja Asif , has once again defended his country's "hybrid model" of governance, insisting that the military and civilian leadership work "by consensus" in managing state affairs.
Speaking to British-American journalist Mehdi Hasan, Asif dismissed suggestions that the army dominates Pakistan's politics, while controversially describing US democracy as a " deep state ."
When asked whether Pakistan's generals hold more power than elected ministers, Asif retorted, "No, it's not like that. I'm a political appointee, I’m a political worker." Pressed further with comparisons to the United States, where civilian leaders have the authority to dismiss top generals, he claimed, "They (the US) have a different model over here. It's called deep state."
Hasan pointed out that in Pakistan, critics accuse the military of being the real decision-maker. Asif acknowledged the perception, blaming "past military rulers" for the image, but insisted the system was based on consensus. Asked directly who prevails if he and Army chief Asim Munir disagree, Asif said: "It's not equal. We can agree to disagree. It is by consensus, whatever is taking place."
Earlier this year, Asif had described the hybrid arrangement as a "practical necessity," saying that while not an ideal form of democracy, it was helping Pakistan manage its economic and governance crises. Local daily Dawn has reported that Asif often praises the military-civilian partnership, despite critics branding it undemocratic.
China 'not worried' about Pak's flirtations with US
Turning to geopolitics, Asif insisted Pakistan's tilt toward Washington under US President Donald Trump, with new mineral and crypto trade deals, would not jeopardise Islamabad's ties with Beijing. "We are not worried about that, because it's a time-tested relationship with China since the late 50s. China is not worried about our flirtations or whatever you call it," he remarked.
Highlighting defence ties, he said: "In the past, even today and in the future also, China has been a very reliable ally. Our Air Force, submarines, planes — almost a major portion of our arms are from China, and our defence cooperation is increasing. It is much more robust than before, with China, the main reason is unreliability of other sources like the United States."
He underscored geography as another factor: "They (China) are reliable and they are our neighbours. We share borders and we share the geography."
Awkward contradictions on Imran Khan
The interview also turned uncomfortable when Asif was confronted about his shifting claims on jailed former Prime Minister Imran Khan's social media activity. At one point, he alleged Khan was operating his account from Adiala Jail. When reminded that he had earlier accused India of controlling Khan's account, Asif appeared flustered.
"You just made two different allegations. Is it Imran in his prison cell or is it India?" Hasan asked. Asif responded, "Either he is operating from the cell or he should at least identify who is operating the jail cell."
Pressed further on evidence, Asif cited "intelligence sources" but refused to provide details, insisting: "The evidence I cannot publicly disclose… but it is there."
Speaking to British-American journalist Mehdi Hasan, Asif dismissed suggestions that the army dominates Pakistan's politics, while controversially describing US democracy as a " deep state ."
When asked whether Pakistan's generals hold more power than elected ministers, Asif retorted, "No, it's not like that. I'm a political appointee, I’m a political worker." Pressed further with comparisons to the United States, where civilian leaders have the authority to dismiss top generals, he claimed, "They (the US) have a different model over here. It's called deep state."
Hasan pointed out that in Pakistan, critics accuse the military of being the real decision-maker. Asif acknowledged the perception, blaming "past military rulers" for the image, but insisted the system was based on consensus. Asked directly who prevails if he and Army chief Asim Munir disagree, Asif said: "It's not equal. We can agree to disagree. It is by consensus, whatever is taking place."
Earlier this year, Asif had described the hybrid arrangement as a "practical necessity," saying that while not an ideal form of democracy, it was helping Pakistan manage its economic and governance crises. Local daily Dawn has reported that Asif often praises the military-civilian partnership, despite critics branding it undemocratic.
China 'not worried' about Pak's flirtations with US
Turning to geopolitics, Asif insisted Pakistan's tilt toward Washington under US President Donald Trump, with new mineral and crypto trade deals, would not jeopardise Islamabad's ties with Beijing. "We are not worried about that, because it's a time-tested relationship with China since the late 50s. China is not worried about our flirtations or whatever you call it," he remarked.
“Are you basically saying your strategic future is with China, not the US?”@mehdirhasan questions Pakistan Defense Minister Khawaja Asif on Pakistan’s ‘flirtatious’ relationship with the US. pic.twitter.com/Tvfi7Y2ALv
— Zeteo (@zeteo_news) September 26, 2025
Highlighting defence ties, he said: "In the past, even today and in the future also, China has been a very reliable ally. Our Air Force, submarines, planes — almost a major portion of our arms are from China, and our defence cooperation is increasing. It is much more robust than before, with China, the main reason is unreliability of other sources like the United States."
He underscored geography as another factor: "They (China) are reliable and they are our neighbours. We share borders and we share the geography."
Awkward contradictions on Imran Khan
The interview also turned uncomfortable when Asif was confronted about his shifting claims on jailed former Prime Minister Imran Khan's social media activity. At one point, he alleged Khan was operating his account from Adiala Jail. When reminded that he had earlier accused India of controlling Khan's account, Asif appeared flustered.
"You just made two different allegations. Is it Imran in his prison cell or is it India?" Hasan asked. Asif responded, "Either he is operating from the cell or he should at least identify who is operating the jail cell."
Pressed further on evidence, Asif cited "intelligence sources" but refused to provide details, insisting: "The evidence I cannot publicly disclose… but it is there."
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